Comments on: The (In)famous Craigslist Post http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/ Motionographer shares the best in design and moving media, from student work to feature films. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:29:36 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Toks Ogun http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/comment-page-2/#comment-33147 Toks Ogun Sat, 17 May 2008 03:16:41 +0000 http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/#comment-33147 The main problem is positioning, artist normally don't have a good position. Artist are normally viewed as eager to work and so people take advantage of that. When the work that we do is considered a small part of the bigger picture people take advantage. The main problem is positioning, artist normally don’t have a good position. Artist are normally viewed as eager to work and so people take advantage of that. When the work that we do is considered a small part of the bigger picture people take advantage.

]]> By: dummy http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/comment-page-2/#comment-14859 dummy Mon, 05 Mar 2007 05:56:21 +0000 http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/#comment-14859 we work for them we work for them

]]> By: xpez http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/comment-page-2/#comment-12482 xpez Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:16:05 +0000 http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/#comment-12482 This is aperfect example of the shitty contests MTV and GETTYIMAGES put on. These mega brands give you a few thousand dollars if you are the winner. Meanwhile they just consulted hundreds of design studios around the world for great ideas. I think that kind of research is more valuable than that by far. FUCK MTV AND GETTY for being such wankers and not appreciating all of the talented people in the world. Eventually designers wake up and realize their worth with experience. This is aperfect example of the shitty contests MTV and GETTYIMAGES put on. These mega brands give you a few thousand dollars if you are the winner. Meanwhile they just consulted hundreds of design studios around the world for great ideas. I think that kind of research is more valuable than that by far. FUCK MTV AND GETTY for being such wankers and not appreciating all of the talented people in the world.

Eventually designers wake up and realize their worth with experience.

]]> By: jim johnson http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/comment-page-2/#comment-11683 jim johnson Fri, 16 Feb 2007 01:08:55 +0000 http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/#comment-11683 i do all my work for free sometimes people just give me money when i am done i do all my work for free

sometimes people just give me money when i am done

]]> By: edu http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/comment-page-2/#comment-11598 edu Thu, 15 Feb 2007 16:28:36 +0000 http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/#comment-11598 I think it's ok to do work for free, if you're going to learn something in the proccess. Of course once you get something out of it, it's not free work, but you're not getting money, so it's "for free". By that i mean doing some free work as an assistant, trying to learn as much as you can by working with someone who has a lot to teach you. But simply doing free work because the client is cool (wich is very subjective) is stupid at best. The client won't respect you, and you'll probably end up hating the work and not doing it as well as you should. Use that free time for personal projects, you don't need a fucking logo to do good work, quite the contrary. I have friends who got good jobs out of personal projects from college, and it's way better as a cretive exercise. Every time you do work for free, you are telling a client that it's ok to do creative work for free. So, if you're planning on making a decent living out of your work, think twice before you do that super cool job for free, it's just not worth it. There are a lot of really cool clients out there who could use your free work for a good cause, just think about it. I think it’s ok to do work for free, if you’re going to learn something in the proccess. Of course once you get something out of it, it’s not free work, but you’re not getting money, so it’s “for free”. By that i mean doing some free work as an assistant, trying to learn as much as you can by working with someone who has a lot to teach you. But simply doing free work because the client is cool (wich is very subjective) is stupid at best. The client won’t respect you, and you’ll probably end up hating the work and not doing it as well as you should.
Use that free time for personal projects, you don’t need a fucking logo to do good work, quite the contrary. I have friends who got good jobs out of personal projects from college, and it’s way better as a cretive exercise.
Every time you do work for free, you are telling a client that it’s ok to do creative work for free. So, if you’re planning on making a decent living out of your work, think twice before you do that super cool job for free, it’s just not worth it. There are a lot of really cool clients out there who could use your free work for a good cause, just think about it.

]]> By: earlygrab http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/comment-page-2/#comment-11349 earlygrab Wed, 14 Feb 2007 04:31:14 +0000 http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/#comment-11349 10 years ago, 99.9% of the studios on that list were still in school. Seriously though, you speak the truth. 10 years ago, 99.9% of the studios on that list were still in school. Seriously though, you speak the truth.

]]> By: Mr. S. http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/comment-page-2/#comment-11264 Mr. S. Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:24:16 +0000 http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/#comment-11264 10 years ago, when I was working at one of the companies listed in the Cream O' the Crop over there, we used to have debates about whether or not to take spec jobs. Then after awhile the debates got quieter and mostly we just took the spec work if it was for a client we really wanted to work for. Then we just took spec work from any one who asked, for the most part. Why? Because our sales guy sucked. Giving stuff away is much, much easier than selling it. Of course, our sales guy worked 9-6-- he didn't have to stay late every night to do all this work that he was giving away-- what did he care? Eventually, this played a big factor in my decision to leave this company-- too many trips to pitch materials to people who seemed largely to be humoring us and whom frequently hadn't briefed us properly. Why? Becuase our work had NO VALUE to them-- it was free. Why not have us come in and show stuff-- it didn't cost them anything. Here's an analogy: Why would I pay for email or video hosting on the web when I can get that stuff for free? Well perhaps I need more control than the free services offer. So: some clients will pay big bucks for control of design, or for a certain level of service they can't get for free-- but the vast majority of clients would take the free service if they could. When you give work away for free, it becomes a commodity, and then its just about who gives it away the best. Of course you're going to give work away during your career. There are some good reasons-- to work with a known talent you really want to meet or learn from, to support a good cause, to help a friend, or to gain legitimate exposure in front of an audience that you can't reach any other way. But don't fool yourselves about why you're doing it. If you're trying to build a portfolio, then you're better off making up assignments for yourself and maintaining control. And yes, sometimes any money is better than no money coming in. But don't give your work away just because it's easier then selling it. Most designers/artists I know HATE the selling part. I know I do. It is, however, an essential skill, and like all the other skills you've developed, it gets easier with practice. ALWAYS ask for what you think you're worth, regardless of what's been offered. Remember-- everytime you give something away for free, you're training that person that free is okay. And yes, I agree totally with one of the posts higher up-- the free jobs ALWAYS end up being the biggest pain in the asses, largely because free jobs never seem to have real deadlines. So if you are going to give something away for free, to a friend especially, try and at least be upfront about how much time you're willing to give away-- a couple hours, a week, 6 months? 10 years ago, when I was working at one of the companies listed in the Cream O’ the Crop over there, we used to have debates about whether or not to take spec jobs. Then after awhile the debates got quieter and mostly we just took the spec work if it was for a client we really wanted to work for. Then we just took spec work from any one who asked, for the most part. Why? Because our sales guy sucked. Giving stuff away is much, much easier than selling it. Of course, our sales guy worked 9-6– he didn’t have to stay late every night to do all this work that he was giving away– what did he care? Eventually, this played a big factor in my decision to leave this company– too many trips to pitch materials to people who seemed largely to be humoring us and whom frequently hadn’t briefed us properly. Why? Becuase our work had NO VALUE to them– it was free. Why not have us come in and show stuff– it didn’t cost them anything.
Here’s an analogy: Why would I pay for email or video hosting on the web when I can get that stuff for free? Well perhaps I need more control than the free services offer. So: some clients will pay big bucks for control of design, or for a certain level of service they can’t get for free– but the vast majority of clients would take the free service if they could. When you give work away for free, it becomes a commodity, and then its just about who gives it away the best.
Of course you’re going to give work away during your career. There are some good reasons– to work with a known talent you really want to meet or learn from, to support a good cause, to help a friend, or to gain legitimate exposure in front of an audience that you can’t reach any other way. But don’t fool yourselves about why you’re doing it. If you’re trying to build a portfolio, then you’re better off making up assignments for yourself and maintaining control. And yes, sometimes any money is better than no money coming in. But don’t give your work away just because it’s easier then selling it. Most designers/artists I know HATE the selling part. I know I do. It is, however, an essential skill, and like all the other skills you’ve developed, it gets easier with practice. ALWAYS ask for what you think you’re worth, regardless of what’s been offered.
Remember– everytime you give something away for free, you’re training that person that free is okay. And yes, I agree totally with one of the posts higher up– the free jobs ALWAYS end up being the biggest pain in the asses, largely because free jobs never seem to have real deadlines. So if you are going to give something away for free, to a friend especially, try and at least be upfront about how much time you’re willing to give away– a couple hours, a week, 6 months?

]]> By: Arlan http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/comment-page-2/#comment-11260 Arlan Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:15:07 +0000 http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/#comment-11260 Never, ever, ever work for free. It will not get you "exposure". It will not "turn into more work down the road". It's a rip-off. Always get paid, even if it's a pittance or a barter agreement for something you can use. Always get compensation. Always. If you don't you'll be seen as a chump. Once you're seen as a chump, you'll never be seen as anything else. Never, ever, ever work for free. It will not get you “exposure”. It will not “turn into more work down the road”. It’s a rip-off. Always get paid, even if it’s a pittance or a barter agreement for something you can use. Always get compensation. Always. If you don’t you’ll be seen as a chump. Once you’re seen as a chump, you’ll never be seen as anything else.

]]> By: matt http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/comment-page-2/#comment-11207 matt Tue, 13 Feb 2007 07:22:17 +0000 http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/#comment-11207 NOTICE TO ALL : keep an openned mind about these things! The writer of this letter should have had one himself. I agree that all artists should be informed of such a perspective to avoid being cheated but I strongly believe that this document should have been a little less bias. Everyone would agree that some, although rare, oppertunities do arrive in the form of free work that could lead to incredible growth and profit. if the indipendent contractor can be trusted to truely carry the artist up with his rise when starting a business, can promises just returns AFTER the completion of the work or proposes any other respectable method of compansation then all of a sudden, free work coulds be a good idea. so, in some perspectives, artists (or all indipendants looking for work) could get exploited this way but, in some instances, great oppertunities could come up. My suggestion to all is this : do think of thoses things, written in that text, when hearing a proposition about free work but also consider listening carefully to avoid passing up on a unique growth oppertunity. the greatest businesses of our times started out with people in them that worked for free. NOTICE TO ALL : keep an openned mind about these things! The writer of this letter should have had one himself. I agree that all artists should be informed of such a perspective to avoid being cheated but I strongly believe that this document should have been a little less bias. Everyone would agree that some, although rare, oppertunities do arrive in the form of free work that could lead to incredible growth and profit. if the indipendent contractor can be trusted to truely carry the artist up with his rise when starting a business, can promises just returns AFTER the completion of the work or proposes any other respectable method of compansation then all of a sudden, free work coulds be a good idea. so, in some perspectives, artists (or all indipendants looking for work) could get exploited this way but, in some instances, great oppertunities could come up. My suggestion to all is this : do think of thoses things, written in that text, when hearing a proposition about free work but also consider listening carefully to avoid passing up on a unique growth oppertunity. the greatest businesses of our times started out with people in them that worked for free.

]]> By: Brandon http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/comment-page-2/#comment-11046 Brandon Mon, 12 Feb 2007 07:52:48 +0000 http://motionographer.com/2007/02/07/the-infamous-craigslist-post/#comment-11046 thanks so much for this post. i don't feel like the only idiot. thanks so much for this post. i don’t feel like the only idiot.

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